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Add a conspectus for the advocacy list for the week ending November 5th.

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Submitted by:	Rebecca "Bean" Visger <bean@internal.org>
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" [
<!ENTITY title "FreeBSD-advocacy Conspectus, week ending 5th November 2000">
<!ENTITY date "$FreeBSD$">
<!ENTITY base "../../../..">
<!ENTITY % includes SYSTEM "../../../../includes.sgml"> %includes;]>
<html>
&header;
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="left">Dates</th>
<th align="center"># Posts</th>
<th align="left">Subject</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 01 - Nov 03</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">21</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="11/05.html#1">About introducing
newbies to FreeBSD</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 03 - Nov 04</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">8</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="11/05.html#2">Any artists interested
in doing a FreeBSD animated GIF banner?</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 02 - Nov 05</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">10</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="11/05.html#3">CounterStrike</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 03 - Nov 05</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">10</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="1/05.html#4">Installation: what to
(not) do about it</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<!-- 1 -->
<hr noshade>
<h3><a name="1"></a>Nov 01 - 03 (21 posts): <a href="http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=3453+0+archive/2000/freebsd-advocacy/20001105.freebsd-advocacy">About introducing newbies to FreeBSD</a></h3>
<p>Quoting a lengthy post to freebsd-questions regarding the usability
of /stand/sysintall for newbies, <a href="mailto:mj@isy.liu.se">[Micke
Josefsson]</a> asked for comments and suggestions from the list about
a new user interface for a regular install.</p>
<p>Some notable thoughts were:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>I think there should be some info available in sysinstall
(or whatever replaces it) explaining what is happening in each
step, and the relevant terms...The terms I speak of here are the
FreeBSDish terms (as opposed to generic UNIX terms like users
&amp; groups) that every rookie asks about - slice? distribution?
port? package? The context of each step is not
explained.</i> - <a href="mailto:sjt@cisco.com">[Steve
Tremblett]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p><i>Since most of our new users come to us from either Windows
or Linux, we need an installation program that is a lot more like
the ones that they've used in the past. I've often wondered how
many users we lose while they are trying to load the OS. What I
would really like to see is a FreeBSD installer on par with the
UnixWare 7 or Tru64 5.0 installers (a clone of SCO Admin would be
nice too!). Failing that, we probably need something that looks
more like a Linux installer, or a really good rosetta stone.</i>
- <a href="mailto:bob@inu.net">[Bob Martin]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p><i>To get back on track, one of sysinstalls failings, while not
being a technical point, is it's image. Everytime I talk to some
llama who's installing linux, he goes "OOOOOOhhhhh look at all the
pretty colors, mmmmmmmmmmm graphical install...does FreeBSD have
that???" Of course me being the civilized being that I am, instead
of smacking them upside the head then and there, I wait till they
are finished installing, and laugh my arse off linuxconf shits
itself for the 20th time...So in conclusion, in order to make
FreeBSD's initial installation easier for the
novice/unix beginner/grandma, yes, sysinstall does need an
overhaul.</i> - <a href="mailto:wyldephyre2@yahoo.com">[Haikal
Saadh]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p><i>What is absolutely maddening is the way the installer accepts
input from the users. Sometimes you press (or are supposed to
press) &lt;RETURN&gt; and some other times you are supposed to
press &lt;SPACE&gt;. But the worst part is when you just finished
installing the OS and you find yourself back in a menu telling you
to do some final adjustments. If you decide to do these final
adjustments, the f*****ng installer installs the OS again!
It´s outrageous!</i> - <a href="mailto:ignacioc@avantel.net">[Ignacio
Cristerna]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Obviously, we all agree &ndash; we need some sort of new and/or
seperate "first boot install" for newbies coming to us from Windows,
Linux, etc... and according to <a
href="mailto:jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com">[Jordan Hubbard]</a>, this
discussion has been going on for a long, long, long time...</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>I'm not just being snide here, we really have had this very
same discussion (and in almost the same words) on and off for the
last 7 years now. It's hardly rocket science to envision an
installer which has one big button on it which even your
grandmother could push, the question always boiling down to "Who
the heck is going to write this thing then?""</i></p>
<p><i>That's generally where the discussion stops. Every man and
his dog can describe an installer which follows in the footsteps
of Windows, Solaris or even OS X now that we have its installer to
look at since imitation is a pretty straight-forward design
challenge. As I first said back in 1993, "who will step up to the
plate and create this alternative installer so that we can evaluate
its merits and possibly even make it the default?" I'm still
waiting for an answer to that question, 7 years later. :-)"</i></p>
</blockquote>
<!-- 2 -->
<hr noshade>
<h3><a name="2"></a>Nov 03 - 04 (10 posts): <a href="http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=94417+0+archive/2000/freebsd-advocacy/20001105.freebsd-advocacy">Any artists interested in doing a FreeBSD animated GIF banner?</a></h3>
<p><a href="mailto:jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com">[Jordan Hubbard]</a> is
asking for graphically talented geeks out there to work up a banner
ad for rotation on various sites including <a
href="http://www.daemonnews.org">D&aelig;monNews</a>. Image size
should be 468x60 pixels, and no larger than 20k. This is to promote
the FreeBSD project, so open up the Gimp or whatever your fancy is,
and email Jordan with what you come up with. Remember, you're not
going to get paid for this, the warm fuzzy feeling you get for
working on the FreeBSD project is enough :-)</p>
<!-- 3 -->
<hr noshade>
<h3><a name="3"></a>Nov 02 - 05 (10 posts): <a href="http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=77785+0+archive/2000/freebsd-advocacy/20001105.freebsd-advocacy">CounterStrike</a></h3>
<p>This thread started out with <a
href="mailto:mbendiks@eunet.no">[Marius Bendiksen]</a> urging us to
push for a CounterStrike (a HalfLife mod) server port. The first step
would be to start out with a port skeleton for the dedicated Linux
server, then the push would begin with Sierra Games for a full
port. <a href="mailto:dchance@valuedata.net">[Daryl Chance]</a>
replied with a 'make search key=halflife', stating that the server
was indeed already ported. Marius still thinks the game should be
ported itself though...</p>
<p>A sub-discussion about using Open Sound System vs. FreeBSD's built-in
sound support for popular games ensued, and <a href="mailto:">[Terry
Lambert]</a> tells us:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>Most games require a specific sound card API. This API is
supported natively in Linux, but FreeBSD does not support this
API. To use this API, you must have third party (OSS) sound card
drivers, or modify FreeBSD's API. When you suggest this to the
sound driver people, they tend to get belligerant and talk about
how their API is better than the Linux API."</i></p>
<p><i>The OSS drivers are not free, they cost money, but you can use
them in evaluation mode for 30 days at a pop, so if you want to
play a game and not pay for the drivers, you have to reinstall them
every 30 days (I personnaly call this "paying for the drivers in
the most expensive way possible").</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>To which <a href="des@ofug.org">[Dag-Erling Smorgrav]</a> replied:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>Bollocks. It implements the OSS API, or at least tries to.
If something doesn't work, submit a PR or, even better, patches,
instead of just bitching and spreading disinformation.</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="mailto:jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com">[Jordan]</a> and <a
href="mailto:jameso@elwood.net">[Jim]</a> assure us that both Loki
games in the ports tree play audio just fine with the stock audio
driver, requiring no changes to the game or your system.</p>
<!-- 4 -->
<hr noshade>
<h3><a name="4"></a>Nov 03 - 05 (10 posts): <a href="http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=96164+0+archive/2000/freebsd-advocacy/20001105.freebsd-advocacy">Installation: what to (not) do about it</a></h3>
<p>Here we have Terry Lambert and Jordan Hubbard discussing the previous
thread about the FreeBSD Installation software. We'll skip the lengthy
discussion between these two, but basically, the conversation boils down
to this:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>I am merely pointing out that it has been much longer than a
year without a new installer, and had their terms been agreed to
a year ago, FreeBSD would have its installer source code today, and
under the terms you are insisting upon, up front.</i></p>
<p><i>So now it's your turn to "put up or shut up"; I _can't_ expend
the effort on these things without a guarantee that that effort will
not be wasted, like it was last time I spent the effort on these
and similar projects on behalf of FreeBSD. I _can't_ afford to"</i>
- <a href="mailto:tlambert@primenet.com">[Terry Lambert]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p><i>And this is speculation masquerading as fact. You have no
sure way of knowing that this would, in fact, have occurred or
that "two FreeBSDs" would have even been widely accepted by the
project contributors or the user community. I see it as far more
likely that your mysterious commercial benefactors would have been
deluged with demands that they open source their product
immediately so that people could customize it and this might in
turn have led to a siege mentality on their part and very poor
results. You simply have no way of knowing for sure what you claim
as fact above.</i></p>
<p><i>Like I've told you many times, Terry, nobody gets a "guarantee"
of anything in this project since it's not a kitchen appliance
dealership which hands out limited customer guarantees along with
every frigidair they sell. What you get is the chance to deal with
a large group of people and try, through dint of effort and
perserverance, to sell them on your ideas and (more importantly)
your working code. Even if I wanted to change this as part of
"putting up or shutting up" for you I could not since it's not in
my power to beam hypno-rays directly into the brains of several
hundred people and get them all to agree up front to buy a used
car from you. That's something that you, and only you, can do.
Same deal *everyone* else gets. In short, this is life, deal with
it.</i> - <a href="mailto:jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com">[Jordan
Hubbard]</a></p>
</blockquote>
<hr noshade>
<p>This conspectus expresses my understanding of what occurred on the
FreeBSD-advocacy mailing list during the specified week.</p>
<p>Hey, I'm human... I may have made an error or two... If you think
this is the case, and/or that I have omitted some significant thread
or part of a thread, feel free to contact me via email.</p>
<p align="right">- <a href="mailto:bean@internal.org">Rebecca "Bean"
Visger</a></p>
<hr noshade>
&footer;
</body>
</html>

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# $FreeBSD$
.if exists(../Makefile.conf)
.include "../Makefile.conf"
.endif
.if exists(../Makefile.inc)
.include "../Makefile.inc"
.endif
DOCS= 05.sgml
.include "${WEB_PREFIX}/share/mk/web.site.mk"

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# $FreeBSD$
.if exists(../Makefile.conf)
.include "../Makefile.conf"
.endif
.if exists(../Makefile.inc)
.include "../Makefile.inc"
.endif
DOCS= index.sgml
SUBDIR= 11
.include "${WEB_PREFIX}/share/mk/web.site.mk"

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# $FreeBSD$
WEBBASE?= /data/conspectus/advocacy/2000
WEB_PREFIX?= ${.CURDIR}/../../../../..

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" [
<!ENTITY title "FreeBSD-advocacy Conspectus, for the year 2000">
<!ENTITY date "$FreeBSD: www/en/conspectus/stable/2000/index.sgml,v 1.3 2000/07/03 23:52:45 nik Exp $">
<!ENTITY base "../../..">
<!ENTITY % includes SYSTEM "../../../includes.sgml"> %includes;]>
<html>
&header;
<p>This is the master index for the FreeBSD-advocacy conspectus for
the year 2000. For other lists, see the <a
href="../../index.html">Conspectus Home</a>.</p>
<h2>Week ending <a href="11/05.html">5th of November</a></h2>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th align="left">Dates</th>
<th align="center"># Posts</th>
<th align="left">Subject</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 01 - Nov 03</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">21</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="11/05.html#1">About introducing
newbies to FreeBSD</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 03 - Nov 04</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">8</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="11/05.html#2">Any artists interested
in doing a FreeBSD animated GIF banner?</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 02 - Nov 05</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">10</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="11/05.html#3">CounterStrike</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Nov 03 - Nov 05</td>
<td valign="top" align="center">10</td>
<td valign="top"><a href="1/05.html#4">Installation: what to
(not) do about it</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
&footer;
</body>
</html>

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# $FreeBSD$
.if exists(../Makefile.conf)
.include "../Makefile.conf"
.endif
.if exists(../Makefile.inc)
.include "../Makefile.inc"
.endif
SUBDIR= 2000
.include "${WEB_PREFIX}/share/mk/web.site.mk"

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# $FreeBSD$
WEBBASE?= /data/conspectus/advocacy
WEB_PREFIX?= ${.CURDIR}/../../../..